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[The Fist]

Dang only 6 players for fantasy?

Ill try and make the next one with enough notice. I didnt learn of this until too late :-(

Someone needs to come and knock Beav out of a tourney. Of course when I show up he will play Bretts 

[Kagetora]

Just so you all know, well, Beav and Kurt, anyway, I'm NOT insane.

In the 6th edition rulebook, under the heading "Line of Sight and Who Can Shoot," at the bottom of the page it states clearly that linear obstacles like walls and hedges block LOS over open ground.   

But, Kurt was correct, I can't find such a statement in my cursory examination of 7th edition.  Thats my fault for assuming they had transported it from the old edition.  But I'm NOT crazy.  Ha!

As for Beav's army being balanced...well, I won't comment other than to say I still hate the way TK win or lose the game completely in the Magic Phase.  Its a very poorly designed army in that respect.  Beav maxxed out what he could do in that Phase, to the hilt.  King (2 Incantations), 3 Liche Priests (3 more), Casket (another BIGGIE), Staff of Ravening and Banner of Undying Legion (2 more) was 8 Incantations a round on 12d6.  My 5d6 Dispel was not up to the task.

Of course, my putting the Treeman Ancient where he could take 12 wounds from a flaming catapult shot before he got to move probably wasn't my best idea of the day either.     That was 600 points of a deficit before I move a mini (400 for the Treeman, +100 for the General, +100 special bonus for the Scenario rule).  Ouch.

I should have discussed it with Beav beforehand (the wall, that is).  Had I know I could see the Casket over it, I would have deployed a bit differently, using 1-2 Dryad units to screen the rest for a couple turns.  But thats my fault, as I said.  Beav played it right.

In the end, the 25-point Pageant of Shrikes did something worthwhile for the first time in 28 games, killing the Heirophant.  That, coupled with Beav rolling huge numbers of 2d6 all day (which helped him with the Casket, rolling over a 7 to wound my units 11 times out of 12 during the game, but hurt him on his Crumble rolls after the Heiro went down, when he rolled several 10's for LD), helped me squeak out a tie at the very end, Beav beating me by 136 points.  Insanely close game.

In the end, I had 2 Dryads left on the table (1 each from 2 different units), and my BSB.  Beav had a unit of Tomb Guard over half and half a Tomb Scorpion.  We butchered each other handily.  And harshly.  It was great.

I am a little shocked at getting the lowest Sportsmanship score, however.  The criteria involved on the sheet deal with how I was to play, and whether people thought my army had a good theme and looked nice.  Not necessarily what you thought about the Tree List composition itself.  I guess I must just be an asshole.      Stephan gave me top marks (6 and 2, HALF my total score, as he handed the sheet to me to hand in, smiling and telling me it was a great game, which it was...I won purely on his bad die rolling on 4 rolls (2 Stupidity Checks from Befuddlement, a re-rolled Undivided Panic Check, and a Flee roll of snake eyes), and NOTHING more), so Wade and Beav must have really hated me.     Sorry guys.  I gave everyone top marks, except I dinged Beav a single point (1, average, instead of 2, top) for bringing an utterly maxxed-out TK Caster list (gave everyone a 6 Sportsmanship though).

Oh well, I won't be bringing the Trees for a while.  Next RTT will be the Lizards, and the Lizards next League as well.  The Trees might return for the January RTT, we'll see.

And Congrats again, Beav.  Well done, and well earned in our game.  We fought to an utter standstill, and you came out on top.   

[Mordante]

Greg, i did give you a 4 and a 2 for your scores.  I guess I am just more critical on scoring than most.  Almost everyone gave all 6's in both tourneys, which is why we needed the final scoring sheet that we used to determine a winner.  I only give a 6 when the game is great fun no matter who I'm playing.  It is just my opinion on how to vote, obviously others have a different opinion.  It may be partly you, it may be partly your army, but playing against your trees is not very fun for me, so I did not give you highest marks, I gave you the average, not the worst.  I did give you highest on your army because, although not fun to play against, it is beautiful, and is a great theme.  What it really came down to was that others got votes as favorite player in the final scoring and you did not, thus your lower score.

[captkurt]

When Beav and Greg called me over to make the judgement, I called that it did not block LOS.  The item in question looked like field boundry to me.

One of the bad things that they did in 7th Ed, was that they took out the terrain rules.  In 6th (I do not remember how 5th did it), terrain was an abstraction and you followed what the rules said about it, regardless of what it looked like.  In 7th it looks like you pretty much need to go WYSIWYG as far as terrain is concearned, which I think is STUPID!

In our next tournament, I think that we will have cards at each table that describe the terrain and let the players know what they count as.

[Kagetora]

Wade...

Its within your prerogative to score anyone you want any way you want.  I wasn't complaining.  I had misread the chart you posted on the first page of this thread...I got a 16 for Sportsmanship and a 7 for Army.  For some dumb-ass reason, I thought the 16 was my total score from my opponents...but its obviously not.  Its the score from the first half of the scoring sheet.  Duh.  So, I got a 6 from Stephan and Beav, and a 4 from you, which is perfectly reasonable.  I agree, our match up didn't turn out as fun as it could have for you, to be sure.  I also don't generally give top marks unless people deserve them.  You, Beav, and Stephan all did.   

The SECOND number is from the other half of the sheet, with a total possible score of 6 from the games and a few more points from the Total Tally sheets each player filled out with their Favorites.  Stephan was the runaway winner for OBVIOUS reasons...his Nurgle Beast Horde was SUPERB.

So, I got a 7 there...top score plus someone picked me for their favorite.  Thats great too.

I was just taken aback when I thought I scored a 16 out of a possible 24.     Instead, I got a 22 out of 24, which makes me feel a LOT better.  I am not there to ruin anyone's day.  Ever.  I was feeling bad that apparently I had done just that.     But, as I said, I just misread your chart.  My bad.  I wasn't criticizing you at all.

[Kagetora]

Kurt, thats a good idea for next time, but it was my own fault for making the assumption that the rule had carried over to 7th edition.  You made the correct call, I should have discussed it with Beav beforehand.  We had a discussion and a dice-off about how the ruins worked anyway, I just wasn't thinking about the wall being a point of contention later...

[Deckard]

I gave everyone top marks, except I dinged Beav a single point (1, average, instead of 2, top) for bringing an utterly maxxed-out TK Caster list (gave everyone a 6 Sportsmanship though).

That's not an utterly maxxed-out TK Caster List.

He could have brought a High Priest - two incantations per turn rolling three dice - that would have really been harsh!

Anyway, the TK's needed a little payback against the trees - way to go Beav'tut!

I think Greg was just a little grumpy because there wasn't any beer!

[Qrab]

I think rules for each table's terrain is an excellent idea.

When I was making 40K terrain for 3rd edition, I wrote the rules on the bottom of the terrain base so that there would be no question.

[Mordante]

I think we were ALL a little grumpy because there wasn't any beer!!    

Greg, I didn't feel criticized, no worries.  I just like everyone to know why I score the way I do.  I think the scoring system we used as a whole is pretty good.  Bob uses the same thing I beleive, since I got the basis for the score sheets from him, although I changed some of the wording.

And yea, Stephan's beast army...wow.  Putting Greg's and his side by side, it is hard to say one cooler looking than the other, the only difference I guess would be that Greg has fewer different kind of units (3 plus characters), where Stephan's has giants, centigors, an amazing "chariot", and 2 or 3 different RAF units that make it more diverse.  I love Greg's uniform theme, and all the cool conversions, Stephan's is just all that...and more.  Is he on the boards here?  I need to email him and get him to check in here.

[Qrab]

Stephan goes by the screen name benmannen on the warhammer forum, but I don't know if he's registered here.

I played him at an RTT in Valencia almost 2 years ago. Nice guy with a well put together army. His Cult of Slaanesh army absolutely destroyed my Nurgle Daemons.

[benmannen]

Howdy guys!

You are correct, thats me, Stefan, aka Benmannen on forums...

I just wanted to say thanks for a great event. I loved the relaxed atmosphere and had 3 fun games... The dice gods were against me in my first 2 games and with me in my last... Thanks for the kind words about my Beastmen, but those slimy puscows dont understand praise... I think their ears rotted off long time ago.

Kagetora: You had a nice Spirit army. Sure 2 treemen is tough, but with little magic, no shooting and and army that cannot flee, that makes up for it for sure. I would play against it any day. Tournament tough but not over the top at all if you ask me.

Yeah, my normal army Iis Dark Elves, and the Cult sometimes. It's a shame GW killed it. Got waaaaay too many points invested in the Dark Elves and I am planning conversions for a bunch of more new units. It's my never ending project.

I will be back next time. I'll bring some pointy ears, they need more slaves...

[benmannen]

Qrab: I think I remember our game. Did you have 2-3 units if nurglings that my Devoted with Annointed cut through way too fast? Turned out that my Devoted were the perfect Nurgle Daemon killers if I remember it right. YOU were hitting my guys on 5s for a change 

I remember loving your BSB conversion. Do you still have the army? Most Legion players I know have unfortunatly ebayed their armies...

[Qrab]

Qrab: I think I remember our game. Did you have 2-3 units if nurglings that my Devoted with Annointed cut through way too fast? Turned out that my Devoted were the perfect Nurgle Daemon killers if I remember it right. YOU were hitting my guys on 5s for a change 

I remember loving your BSB conversion. Do you still have the army? Most Legion players I know have unfortunatly ebayed their armies...

Yep, that was me. I do still have the army, but it's sitting on the shelf for the time being. I'm hesitant to put any more work into the army until GW decides what it's going to do about Daemons...

Right now I'm working on a Mortal Nurgle army, but I keep going back to the drawing board to figure out a formula that works. One of these days we'll have a re-match.

[AllTheWayUlthwe]

Greg,

I wanted to let you know that I gave you high marks for Sportsmanship. You are always a gentleman and a good player. There is never any bad blood between you and I when we play and we rarely argue over a rule. That Said I gave you the highest mark for Sportsmanship. On Comp, I only arked you down on the middle tier. I think the All Tree list is over bearing and very tough. I think that however, that facing the army before and combined with your record in the last league, might have honestly tainted my decision, I would be lying if it didn't. It was a tough fought game for you and I. Even with a "Maxxed out" magic Tomb King army, as you stated, I only fought you to a draw. What does that say to you about your ALL TREE army? Even a maxxed out magic army with potentially 12 casting dice can only squeek out a draw against your army, well this would give me pause.

Greg, I always love playing against you. You are a great player and I learn something new each time we play. I am sorry if you thought my army was over the top. I felt that the TK's need magic to funtion to it's upmost. I however didn't bring any Bone Giants as in the past they really brought down my sports and comp scores. I went with an army that was fantastic, but not completely devestating, in the magic phase of the game. You could have allowed me to get my rather tame block units into HtH with my magic, as you killed them utterly (except for one unit) whether or not I charged you or you charging me. Then you could have kept you dispell dice for the casket. It's not like you don't know when I am going to cast the casket. I have a hierachy I have to follow each magic phase. My other opponents did jsut this, they held on to thier dispel dice for the casket. I only got it off one other time in both of my previous games that day.

I hope there is no bad blood between us.

Beav

[Kagetora]

Never any bad blood, Beav.  I really enjoyed our game, actually, right after I got over losing my General and 600-points on the first shot of the game.     That took a couple turns, though.

Honestly, I never said you army was over the top...I meant more along the lines of ruthless.  You came with the idea of dominating the Magic Phase, and you did so.  Handily, I might add.  As I said, its a fault of the army and the way its designed, IMO, not the players.  And I scored you the same way you scored me...6 for Sportsmanship, and a 1 for Comp.  Had you taken, say, 2 Liche Priests and the Casket (leaving off the one with the Staff), or 3 Liche Priests but left the Casket at home, I would have given you that last point.  Thats just purely my opinions though, and, like I said, I scored you tops for your Sportsmanship.  I DID enjoy our game.

As for Dispelling the Casket, but letting everything else go off, well, it makes little difference to my army.  If ALL you had been doing was moving units, I might have gone that route.  But, honestly, you weren't.  The Staff of Ravening, multiple shots from the Skull Chucker every round, and Magic Missiles from the Priests accounted for more casualties than the Casket.  If I had to save 3d6 to reliably Dispel the Casket each round, you get all the rest off unopposed.  Its six of one, half-dozen of the other, in that case.  I felt it was better to try and control your movements somewhat and attempt to get to the Priests and kill them off, counting on being in Combat to protect me from the Casket.  It ALMOST worked.  But, by the time I had killed all 3 of them, I didn't have enough left to win the game.  Your dice (never rolling below a 7 for the Casket or a 13 for the Staff) saw to that.  If the second Treeman had survived, we would still have tied (instead of you beating me by 136, I would have beaten you by 106 points, i.e. a 242 point swing for half the Treeman and contesting a quarter the fight occured in).  Only if I could have had him survive AND cut the Tomb Guard down below half might I have won.  It was a VERY tight game.

Although the one Dark Spot in the game for me (besides my stupidity with my General, which was my own fault) was the Treekin.  You inflicted 3 wounds on them, killing 1 (above average, even with the Scorpion involved), and even then I still had 9 attacks in return.  I should have won that combat.  My dice failed me.  I only inflicted 3 wounds on the Chariots in return (average I should have done was 4), you had me on size by 1, and I failed the Ld test at a measly -1.  Then ran them down.  A definite swinging point in the game right there.  Oh well.  Thats why we roll dice.  It was just disappointing to see them perform so poorly and get beaten so easily.

All in all though, a good time.   

Would you have scored me differently if I had taken 2 units of Treekin instead of 2 Treemen?  Thats always an option for my army as well, as it works out to about the same points...